Pat McFadden has vowed to reform Britain' benefits system in his first interview since messages he sent to Peter Mandleson were published.
Speaking to GB News, the Work and Pensions Secretary spoke on the private exchange with the New Labour architect over his frustrations with Labour’s welfare agenda.
“Every meeting I have is 'who can we tax in order to pay benefits to others'. They're asking the wrong questions,” Mr McFadden said to Lord Mandelson.
The embarrassing messages were released on Monday as part of a second tranche of files relating to the disgraced peer's short-lived appointment as US ambassador and dealings with the Government.
Speaking to GB News the Work and Pensions Secretary said: “You write things in these messages, and I'm sure everybody does, that they probably, when they wrote them, didn't expect them to be published.”
He added: “Having said that, I've said both in private and in public that we need to change the question that the welfare system asks.
“What I mean by that is we need to move from a question which just asks what benefits you are entitled to, to a question that says, How can we help you change your life?
"I think that is a progressive welfare reform question, because it puts work and opportunity at the heart of what you're trying to do. I've been saying that in public and in private for a long time."
Pat McFadden has vowed benefits reform while addressesing his awkward Peter Mandelson messages
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The Work and Pensions Secretary stressed his complaints to Lord Mandelson were a regular part of governing.
“I've known Peter Manderson for many years, and these messages are kind of back and forth about politics and government that go on a lot," he said.
“Politics is a series of constant conversations, and that's what's reflected in the material that was produced the other day.”
However, Mr McFadden cautioned that he did “not know the extent of his relationship with the guy Epstein, and all the stuff that's come out about that since”.
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The Work and Pensions Secretary shared his frustrations on Labour's welfare agenda in newly released private messages
| GETTY“This was a year or more ago, when he was still the ambassador, when these exchanges took place.”
Delving into the reforms he hoped to see, the Work and Pensions Secretary said they had to be done “differently”.
“I don't think you can or should do welfare reform just by saying here's a sum of money we've got to save, and then you graft on the policy afterwards.
“Of course, cost matters, but the best way to save money on the benefits bill is to help people get into work.”
Mr McFadden said he would put 'working opportunity at the heart' of changes to the welfare system
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“Since the day I walked into the department, that's been my emphasis, particularly with young people. If they get stuck on benefits, it can be a lifelong effect for them.” Mc McFadden explained.
To that end, he insisted on putting “working opportunity at the heart” of any changes to the benefits system.
“It's what I mean by asking the right question rather than the wrong question.
“I'm approaching this in what I would argue is a progressive Labour way,” the Cabinet Minister promised.